To the editor:
I had Thanksgiving with my father this year for the first time in many years. Dad, a native New Englander, retired to Tiverton last year after 20 years in the wilds of Nebraska. I remember those Thanksgivings when the family would pause before the meal, hold hands and give thanks for the things we were grateful for that year. This year, with my mother gone and my sister 9,000 miles away, I forgot our ritual of thanks. Now, thinking back on the family that helped make me who I am, I am grateful to my parents for putting our education first. When I was 9 and my sister 7, my Dad was transferred to the Chicago office of his company. It was 1965, and education in America was undergoing a transformation. My parents searched for a great school district. They found one and bought a house in that community entirely so we could attend school there. In 1965, Evanston, a suburb just north of Chicago, was planning to integrate their school system the next year. The schools in Evanston were very highly rated; the high school routinely listed in surveys of the top ten high schools in the U.S. My parents, who supported school integration and quality, chose well. Evanston was a melting pot: 20% black, 20% Catholic, 20% Jewish- and about 5% international students whose parents worked at Northwestern University or at the University of Chicago.
Evanston had 85,000 people in only two-thirds the square mileage of Tiverton. It was fairly easy to integrate, logistically. So in sixth grade I had black classmates, white, Asian, Hispanic. With my classmates and my parents, I was involved in fair housing marches, anti-war marches, and trips to the South Side of Chicago to watch community organizers – white and black- working in the poor neighborhoods. They were there because the white politicians did little to help fight poverty, or racial discrimination in housing. When the right wing decided to try to label “community organizers” as somehow un-American this fall, I had to laugh at their stupidity. I knew community organizers, and I knew their goodness and abilities.
In tenth grade I became very ill and missed almost a year of school. My biology professor and my social sciences professor reached out to help me. Northwestern students helped me study at home — they were great tutors.
My parents were so prescient to bring this great educational experience to me. Today that’s my moment of thanks —to adults who did what was right and helped improve my education.
Forty years later I live in Tiverton. Here, a group of seemingly mean-spirited and selfish people, most of them older, wealthy, and with no children at home, has chosen to directly and brazenly attack public education. Their weapon is fear and their method is to try to demonize our public school teachers. We have teachers who work hard, who are professionals. Over a long period of time they have won benefits and income that are not in any way out of line with payment levels in Rhode Island or New England. In months of negotiations, our teachers recently negotiated away many of their hard-won advantages in a compromise budget. Local bullies, who call themselves “citizens for change” stood up and insisted that the contract be quashed. We need to ask them what their true interest is. Do they want to try to “break” the teachers’ union? Do they even care one bit about the quality of education for Tiverton children?
I remember people who boldly stood up in our Town Meeting and shouted: “We moved here to retire last year. We don’t have children. I do not understand why we have to pay anything for public schools.” Some TCC members home-school or send their kids to private schools. There are TCC members I know who have property in Tiverton and in Massachusetts, and live here part of the year but are registered to vote in Massachusetts. They believe they should not have to pay property taxes here to support any town activity.
I know TCC supporters who are elderly, on fixed income and live mostly in North Tiverton. I am not upset about these people. I know they struggle with paying taxes. I think the TCC leadership uses these people and incites them with economic fear. I think these taxpayers deserve assistance.
I believe that the TCC in part is fighting for a large number of older wealthy adults without kids who bought very expensive retirement property here during the real estate boom of 2002-2007. Stuck now with houses whose value has plummeted, they are just looking out for their pocketbooks. Holding onto their wallets trumps any care for the future of education here.
TTCC says it wants budget cuts. Tiverton schools have already cut programs in sports, advanced placement, language, music, art and more. So, TCC, cut what else? Oust the teachers’ union? As a 12-year resident and taxpayer I demand that we all make the TCC more transparent. They are arrogant; as newcomers they tell us that we have been incompetent and they know best. They point fingers at respected officials.
I challenge the TCC leadership to prove they care about Tiverton’s children: Volunteer, I suggest, in tutoring kids after school. It will make you more human. Volunteer to substitute teach. That’s what I plan to do in February.
Next year I hope to have more to be thankful for in my town.
Richard Joslin
Tiverton
You are right on, Mr. Joslin. The TCC is another organization trying to drive a wedge between townspeople. Their strategy is to divide and conquer, the community be damned. Who cares about the community, as long as I can save a few tax dollars. They want to be another PCC in Portsmouth. Portsmouth used to be a nice town,with good schools, but the PCC made it a joke.
Once again, Mr. Joslin levels his personal attacks at TCC. These are the tactics that are driving wedges in the town, not rational disagreements about how best to improve the plight of the town.
Rational people, on the other hand, will think it through and realize that TCC cares about the people that are struggling to live here amid the greatest financial crisis in decades. As to education specifically, TCC understands that spending more money on already overblown teacher compensation HURTS the kids. As Mr. Joslin points out, programs risk being cut because all of the money has gone to the unions. TCC has already proven that it cares. These personal attacks simply show ignorance at best, or malice at worst.
The following are quotes taken directly from an email by TCC founder and member M.D. Platte sent out May 28, 2008 before the reconvened FTM. Doesn’t sound like a group who is "proving that it cares" about Tiverton’s children or education to me. Cares about those over 55 definitely, but those under 18 or their parents??
* If school expense cuts are limited by state law, then cap school budget growth to motivate schools to find ways to have parents of children in school provide more revenue to offset school expenses, e.g., donations/fees for busing, libraries, special activities, etc.
*Most of us over 55 have lived through school fights in the towns we come from, many of which are fiscally well managed for the well being of all taxpayers, not just those with school children. When a school committee disrespects the 2/3 of the taxpayers in town without children in the schools, they need to know it.
*We know the cries of parents with children. "We want neighborhood schools." Yet, busing is in place and fewer, moderately larger schools are more economic in terms of bricks and mortar, on going administration and operating costs
*We 2/3 of the Tiverton taxpayers with no children in the schools are looking for financially responsible town government in Tiverton.
are you saying tha 2/3 of the people in Tiverton belong to this group? Becaus eit sure sounds like they think they are speaking for 2/3 of Tiverton, and if they actually are, then elections would all be landslides and they would never lose.
Hmmm, I'm not sure that Platte (or anyone other than the TCC president) speaks for the entire TCC, especially since his comments were before TCC was founded. It's probaby not a good practice to attribute one person's comments to an entire group - should we do that also for other groups in town, such as the Town Democrats and the Alliance?
Either way, at most Mr. Platte is saying that ALL taxpayers, not just those with children, need to be considered. There is the municipal side to attend to also, not just schools.
But let's focus on the actual issue. I still don't see the connection between opposing the overgenerous teacher contract which would have led to a cut in student programming (i.e. bad for kids) and a conclusion that those opposing it don't support the children? I'm baffled whenever I see "gimme more money or it means you don't support the children..."
Well, think, as I have stated before, I am new in town. The new Tiverton teacher contract, which has not yet been ratified by the town, is actually for alot less than most other towns in RI and Mass. The deal needs to work for both sides though and if the town cannot economically support it, then it cannot be ratified.
But: Tiverton also has alot more after school programs and such than any other town I have lived in, or seen. A 6th grade marching band? My son LOVES it. But before we moved here, we looked at other towns, including North and South Kingstown, Narragansett, Bristol, etc, and NONE of them have any kind of band like this for middle school age children. The music program is the most extensive I have seen in any school system we have either lived in or looked at. We came here from Warwick, where they had a "band" that was nothing more than a bunch of violins. No woodwinds, brass or drums. And for all of that, Tiverton pays the same, or less, per student than any other town. The teachers contract is NOT highway robbery. What is highway robbery is the fact that Warwick teachers make more than these Tiverton teachers will make and do not do half as much and do nothing extra after school, at all, and that is WITH a contract.
In conclusion, the contract is fair for both the town and the teachers, and if Tiverton can afford it, it should be ratified.
Now we just need to figure out how to build some new libraries.
Thank you, metaldoc. Your constructive comments are what these posts should be about. It's nice to be able to learn from each other without personal attacks.
These extra programs, I think, are exactly what makes the difference from offering just a basic education to a first-rate one. What I am worried about, is, that a cut in state aid coupled with compensation locked-in by a contract will mean that these programs will be cut.
Even if people can't come to a consensus as to what the town can "afford," a cut in aid or hitting the rate cap will mean that cuts will have to come from somewhere.
While I think the base pay at over $50 an hour is simply too high, those that oversee extra programs get extra stipends, right? If we didn't raise the base pay too much in the face of cuts, we could still offer those stipends to interested teachers or to people from the community to help offer extra programs, no?
I do think the council made the right choice last night, despite the teachers not being happy about it. They simply MUST consider how much money they will have to spend BEFORE spending it. Warwick got into hot water by spending money based on estimated grants from the Fed and State, which then did not happen, hence 2 years worth of 2 million dollar budget shortfalls.
So, if the teachers can hold out just a little longer, this fair arbitrated contract should get passed, assuming it is affordable after budget numbers are known.
But I can certainly understand, from a pure worker point of view, where they are coming from. I just got word today that my company will not be giving out raises next year. While I understand it from a corporate perspective, it still hurts.
However, in town service, the school department can also look at underperforming areas to trim, or over staffed areas and things of that nature which can be trimmed down to fit into the budget better and afford more flexibility with the contract for the teachers.
Is anyone here a member of ri-asc.org ?
It would be nice to get real, hard, data about salaries and positions within our schools here in Tiverton.
It would also be nice to have some kind of a list of after school activities throughout the district, with approximate attendence features. For example: if there is, say, a gardening club at the high school which meets every Thursday, with a teacher on overtime, but only 3 kids attend, why should it continue? Or at least, continue with a paid teacher? Something like that could easily be volunteered out, with a parent running the club instead of a teacher.
Another thing to remember, there is some issue with the powerplant not paying enough taxes as well. If that issue gets worked out satisfactorily, then it would make the teachers contract much easier to swallow.
one last note: very few teachers would make $50 an hour. That works out to $104,000 per year. Just shy of how much the average supoerintendant makes. Now, actually compensation can reach $50 an hour no problem. Just like my job likes to tell me often how much they spend on me (which is usually about 60% more than my actual pay) it still does not replace cold hard cash when trying to buy food and heat your home (with oil!).
N.B.: $104,000 would be for a 52-week work year. Teachers work less than 8 hours for 180 days per year. (Yes, I know teachers do work at home and so on, but others do that as well, so for comparison purposes it's a wash.)
it is very rare actually, for teachers to only work "180 days" per year. The typical teacher starts in late July through mid June, only 2 or 3 weeks off in between, and most work more than an 8 hour day. By comparison, there are 365 days a year, with 104 weekend days, plus 13 holidays so teh average work year is about 240 days, teachers do not get "vacation time" like we all do, they get their summer weeks. So if you add the average vacation time in (3 weeks, 15 days) you have 225 days a year, or about 15 to 20 more than the average teacher. To make a reach that they make $50 an hour based on 180 days is ridiculous.
thinkaboutit says:"Hmmm, I'm not sure that Platte (or anyone other than the TCC president) speaks for the entire TCC"
True enough, although you spoke for the group in your 12/2 post above. You cannot really know what its members "understand, care about, or have proven."
As far as your judgments regarding "what these posts should be about." Well, it is free speech isn't it? How fortunate that we all don't have to meet your standards for worthy comments here.
to Think and Twocents:
It is clear to me that in terms of the schools, you both pretty much want the same thing, you just have different ideas on how to go about it. And you also have different concerns regarding your personal situation. It is also apparent to me that you two have squared off before, probably for quite some time now, possibly even in town meetings. I hope to make a town meeting soon and would liek to meet both of you.
See, the thing is, everyone's concerns are valid. The older people want their taxes applied differently because they use different services. The younger ones with children wouldnt be upset if every tax dollar went to the schools. The only thing left is to find a compromise that best meets everyones needs to some degree.
And if history has taught us anything is that the town must stay in the black, going into debt for teacher contracts, or new firehouses, or whatever, is just plain stupid if it can be avoided.
Lastly, I have only lived here a month and I love it. I love living in this beautiful town. I love looking off my back porch and seeing so many stars because of a lack of light pollution. I love the quiet at night, seeing the people, of all ages, walking their dogs down highland ave on my way to 24 to head to work. And mostly, I love the fact that almost everyone in this town CARES DEEPLY for the town. Both of you do, that is certain. Now end the feud and find a middle issue you can both agree on and that will help lead you towards seeing each others points of views and allow you to see a compromise where none might have existed before.
Thank you again, metaldoc. I'm trying to play fair and focus on the issues. Of course, there is free speech, or as some oddly say "We have the right to be wrong in this country." But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. If you care about the town, then you stop attacking people and their supposed affiliations and focus on solutions.
That's why I've come to support the TCC, by the way. Dave Nelson is their president and can speak for the group, but my experience with them is that they are guided by two principles (1) honest government (which is the one I'm most into) and (2) fiscal resposibility. As far as I can see, there is no one voice or spokesperson that represents everyone, or even pretends to. Rather, it's a loose connection of a lot of people that are guided by those core principles and looking to find solutions. That's why I'm certain you can always find two people, each who you can think you smugly uncover through pseudo-investigative reporting as being affiliated with TCC, that disagree on things and use it to try to pick them apart. These are not spectacular "Ah ha!" moments, but just the natural effect of concerned citizens debating ideas and trying to come to consensus. The group, if that's the right word, since it is more of a concept and a forum with many interested followers, is so young that maybe this will change, but that's my observation. I have never met a single person even loosely connected with TCC that doesn't care about the town - deeply. We should welcome their bringing ideas to the table and applaud that so many people would volunteer so much time to engage in local affairs.
metaldoc:
I'm not sure from where you derive your information about work years. I took mine from the Tiverton teachers' latest contract. If you have sources for your assertion that they typically only take two to three weeks off in the summer (which leaves out, by the way, the several weeks during the school year), I'd be interested to see them. Second jobs and side work don't count.
I'd also be interested in your sources for your asserted averages for the rest of the work force. 13 holidays? I get 5 (6, if my boss is being generous that year). Working in another industry, I got 10. Average vacation time of 3 weeks per year? That's certainly not the average of people whom I've known in my lifetime. (I get one, and used to get two.)
... unless you're including teachers and similar professionals, which would kind of taint the control group, no?
Actually, I have knwn a few teachers in my life, and very few of them get more than one month off in the summer, and most of them work through those "vacations" during the year, and almost all of them put in 10-12 hour days considering they take home papers to grade and such. I dont work a 12 hour day, never take work home (granted, I dont make as much as teahcers do.) But when figuring in the vacation time and such, you must consider white collar workers, since teachers ARE white collar workers. Most white collar jobs offer 2 weeks vacation to start, with additional earned with time in teh company. So the average white collar worker would get 3 weeks per year, 13 holidays and such. The average BLUE collar worker would not get that, of course, thats the nature of blue collar non-union work. Even the factory workers in the union at my company get 11 holidays a year and start with a week vacation, with more earned in time of service, plus they all get a week during teh christmas shutdown. And they are on teh low end of normal union work. When I was in the union in a steel mill, we got 2 weeks vacation, Christmas shut down, 10 holidays, 3 personal days, 2 weeks sick time.. and all that was given to you the day you started. After 3 years, we earned a 3rd week vacation, 1 more personal day, 2 more sick days. And the union bosses felt shafted by management because they had worked out better deals before.
all that, and I dont even have a college degree, which all teachers do. At a cost of (minimum) $12,000 a year for 4 years.
so, if you spent $50,000 or more to get a diploma, you would expect to make a bit more than the average unskilled laborer wouldnt you?
I have a four-year degree, and my experiences in both white (before) and blue (now) collar work are substantially different than you describe. A great many people have been graduating from college for the past couple of decades only to discover that many of the opportunities pay far less than what teachers make, with or without vacations etc. factored in. So unless you've got a data source — your use of such language as "average" notwithstanding — we're merely comparing anecdotes, and they are of equal weight in the discussion.
The question to which your descriptions lead is this: If teachers wish to be treated as white-collar professionals, why have they granted a monopoly of the public education system to a labor regime better suited to blue-collar cogs? The best of them deserve their current pay and benefits, and more, but unionization makes the system a great hiding place for the mediocre, and compared with the national average, the pay differential from the average teacher's deal to the average Rhode Islander's is high.
Of course the pay differential is substantial. Rhode Island has the highest unemployment in the nation. RI also has the largest percentage of people living below the poverty line in the nation. We have, percentage wise, nore people on welfare than any other state. But does that mean a Tiverton teacher should make less than an East Providence teacher? Or less than a do-nothing Providence teacher? The contract offers them a comparable wage to others in a similar industry.Thats how things work. I am a computer technician, and I make a comparable salary to those with similar qualifications. And let me tell you, I make more than some people who are smarter and do more, even within my own company. And that is because, my job and experience level is pay-rated at a certain level, and other peoples jobs are pay rated differently. If you have a 4 year degree in something that isnt useful, of course you wont make as much as you think. But if you, say, have a 4 year architectural degree, you can be pretty sure to make $150k a year or more right out of the gate. Engineering, Chemistry, the same. Arts: not the same, you will be lucky to land a sales job at the mall for $8 an hour. Teachers expect to be paid around 50k a year to start, and to me, that is perfectly fine, and that is what most of them make. But a blue collar UAW auto worker expects to start at 75k a year with no degree. An automotive technician with a technical degree can expect to make $80k to 100k per year. but the teachers that got all those people to that level get harped on for wanting white collar pay? Give me a break. I was making $50k a year working in a foundry 18 years ago.
So first the time off isn't really time off. Then your argument is for just compensation in acknowledgment of a college degree. Now it's all about the expectations of teachers. Are you sure you're not a native Rhode Islander? Your apparently belief that public employees' remuneration ought to be based primarily on other considerations than the people's ability to afford it is a common holding 'round here.
A few related points:
* That pay differential has been around at least since I first looked into it four or five years ago (back before we'd achieved the Most Unemployed title). Moreover, in absolute numbers, we pay our teachers more, even though we are poorer; the scale shifts inequitably in RI.
* Comparing town to town is the union's game. All Rhode Island teachers' contracts must be reined in. Since we, the people, must act locally, while the union acts statewide and nationally, it is our responsibility to pull back on those for whom we've the most direct responsibility. I'd suggest that we've quite a ways to go before Tiverton teachers decide that they'd best look elsewhere.
* Which points to an important consideration that you elide: My wife used to work in both the East Bay suburbs and in Providence as a substitute. There's a marked difference between the work environments, and that ought to be reflected in pay. To the extent that our district is a more desirable one in which to work, we ought to be able to achieve a discount on our pay rates.
* Lastly, as the budget gets tighter and tighter (which it is certainly going to do, the Obaman deus ex machina notwithstanding), matching the teachers' expectations is increasingly going to force parents and students to compromise theirs.
actually, all the points i have mentioned are valid. It is not a "unions" game, it is a game of life! I am not in a union, yet I will be damned if I am going to accept less pay at my job than the local average compensation. And you are right, there should be a pay differential, Tiverton should pay a bit more than Providence, not less, because we want better teachers, not glorified babysitters like Providence and woonsocket. Good teachers flock to better salaries, as does any job.
My end point there was to point out that teaching is, even as it stands, a LOW PAYING career. You can make more, alot more, as almost anything else with a college degree. Yes, they choose to be teachers, does that mean they should choose to be near the poverty line as well? A family of 4 with $45,000 per year income qualifies for state assistance, yet people complain because teachers want SLIGHTLY more than that? With a 4 year degree? Give me a break. I have won this argument hands down on several occassions. Just because you make less than the teachers do, does not mean that they shouldnt make what they make.
Well, to my experience, it's extremely difficult to argue with somebody who's already declared himself the hands-down winner, especially when they do so anonymously throughout. Supply your own trophy, I suppose.
I'd suggest, however, that your presentation of salaries is incorrect, that your description of people's job decisions and understanding of the specific application in Rhode Island is simplistic, and that your decision to make it personal with regard to me should cause other readers to question your motives.
make it personal? No, I used personal experiences. But whatever dude. You are free to feel whatever way you wish. However, you should wake up tomorrow and go to work and decide for yourself whether you are being paid fair market value for your job or not. Personally, I compare my salary and benefits against others in similar jobs to see if I am being paid fairly. I am. But many are not. RI teachers are paid a fair wage at what the contract state here in Tiverton. Other teachers in teh state make more, but not a whole lot more. But if you really want to make money teaching, a teacher should go to California, where all you have to do is make your students feel good about themselves, regardless of whether they learn or not, and you can make 100k plus a year.... to start.
